106: How women entrepreneurs can come up with in-demand speaking topics, featuring Heather Sager
In this episode of ill communication, I’m turning the tables… on myself.
Instead of me doling out the advice and wisdom and coaching, I’m GETTING advice and wisdom and coaching from an incredibly smart speaking and messaging coach, Heather Sager in a rebroadcast of her podcast, Hint of Hustle.
One of my goals for the last several years has been to speak on more stages. Podcasts, yes, but also conference stages. But I was stumped on how to position myself or what to speak about.
So when speaking coach and business mentor, Heather Sager offered to coach me LIVE on her podcast, I was beyond thrilled.
In this conversation, she helped me zero in on my zone of genius, workshop some speaking topics, and eventually brainstorm multiple speeches I could offer and pitch to conference hosts.
Topics We Cover in This Episode:
The three keys to finding the perfect topic for your speaking engagements
A peek into how I found my speaking topic
How we can write the script for how people talk about us
How to make your topic sexy and exciting to your audience
I hope you enjoyed this episode with Heather! Can you see how showcasing your expertise through a live coaching session can be a great marketing tool?
If you want to hear more from Heather, make sure you follow her podcast Hint of Hustle, find her on Instagram, and if you’re looking for a speaking coach, you might want to consider her group program: The Speaker Society, which will be opening up again very soon.
Book me to speak on your stage! Email hello@kimkiel.com.
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[00:00:03] Welcome to ill communication, copywriting tips and sales strategies for small business. I'm your host, Kim Kiel. I'm a copy coach, sales strategist, and direct response copywriter. It's my mission to help women leaders and changemakers amplify their voices through copy. It's why I'm dishing out all the juicy tips, writing prompts, and sales formulas to help you generate more leads, book more calls, and get more high value clients on repeat. Sounds pretty good. It's time to ditch the overwhelm you might be feeling and find confidence in your copywriting so you can get your message out there and attract more soulmate clients. Let's get started. Hello and welcome to this very exciting episode of the Ill Communication Podcast. Today I'm turning the tables on myself instead of me doling out the advice and wisdom and coaching, I'm getting advice and wisdom and coaching from an incredibly smart speaking and messaging coach and business mentor, Heather Sager. One of my goals for the last several years has been to speak on more stages podcasts, yes, but also conference stages, workshops, that kind of thing. You see, in my former life as an environmental educator, I spoke and performed in front of huge audiences and some more intimate ones as well. I typically infuse humor and a little entertainment, maybe even the odd song and dance into my presentations, and I miss speaking from the stage and feeling the energy of a live audience. So I definitely want to put my name forward to speak at conferences or in workshops.
[00:01:54] But to be honest, I'm kind of stumped about what to speak about and how to position myself. So when speaking, coach and business mentor Heather Sager offered to coach me live on her podcast. I was beyond thrilled. During our conversation, she helped me zero in on my Zone of Genius workshop, some speaking topics, and we eventually brainstormed multiple speeches I can offer and pitch to conference hosts. It's a great episode to hear how she helps me home in on my core message and core topics. And hey, if you're hosting a conference or a workshop or you know someone who is and you think one of these topics would be a great fit, please reach out to me. I'm ready to start booking those speaking gigs. And maybe you want to think about how you can use this model of a live coaching experience in your own marketing. When Heather aired this episode, she had oodles of people reaching out to her, asking for her help with coming up with speaking topics, pitching, etc. and so she was able to sell some one off packages, allowing people to see and experience your coaching. Your consulting and expertise live and in action is a great strategy for getting them into your programs or book one on one services with you. This would work for podcasting, YouTube, blogging, Instagram, or LinkedIn live. I'm also considering offering a similar style of coaching call or messaging audit here on my pod two.
[00:03:33] So if you want to be a guinea pig for one of those, reach out to me. Anyway, I don't want to delay you any longer from getting to experience Heather and her magic. Please enjoy this Rebroadcasted episode from Heather's podcast, Hint of Hustle. Well hey friends, welcome back to another episode of the Hint of Hustle podcast. Today's episode I am friggin stoked about because I have been wanting to do what I'm doing on today's episode, literally since I started the podcast, and I don't know, I just never I just never did it. I just never did it. And today is the day that it's going to happen. And what is it? I am doing live coaching. Well, not live. It was live when I did it, but I am streaming a coaching call that I did with a peer to help her nail in her guest speaking topics. This is one of those challenges that I, I know a lot of people struggle with, and it's the what do I talk about? Like what's the what's the best topic? What are the most aligned topics? I'm like, ready to raise my hand and become more visible, get in my face, my message, my self, my business, out in front of more people. What should I talk about? And what I find is a lot of a lot of people you hear interviews of people doing, like the book tour, they have a book come out.
[00:04:59] So then they talk about that book and they go on the circuit to promote that book. Um, it's kind of like same thing that when movie stars have movies come out, they do the tour to talk about the movies. The question is, what do you talk about? Well, a lot of times if you're doing a launch, like you have a course coming up or a program coming out, you can do a guest speaking tour to promote that thing. But what I find more often than not is podcast hosts are not wanting to talk about the same thing that you're talking about all over the place. They're looking for fresh perspectives. They're looking for unique things. And the most important thing is they are not looking to have someone who's like, freaking let me have access to your audience so I could sell them shit. Uh, we're over that. I talk about that a little bit in the episode today, but people are just looking for refreshing conversations with experts, with entrepreneurs, with. I mean, whoever you are and your niche, people want to learn more about you, but more importantly, they want to serve their audiences. So the question is, what do you talk about? Is it the same thing over and over again? Do you have a variety of topics? How do you choose that topic? What angle do you come up with? What that target task? Oh my gosh, words are so hard for me, which is why I am going to do more of this coaching element versus spewing you, uh, spewing on you today.
[00:06:20] So we're gonna have some fun. I have my friend Kim Keele, who I met through a peer mastermind. We're in together. Uh, we have an incredible group of entrepreneurs, a lot of creative entrepreneurs, and she had posted inside the group that she was looking to see, hey, would somebody jump on a zoom and kind of just let her externally process some ideas and maybe collaborate and help each other? And quite a few peers jumped in and said, oh, I'd be happy to help. And I saw the post and I was like, ooh, I can totally help with this. This is literally what I do. And can I stream it to the podcast? And Kim said yes. So that's what was leading up to today. I purposely did not do a ton of communication in advance with Kim. I had sent her a voxer message with some homework to prepare for today's call, but I approached it exactly how I would approach it if I were working with one of my clients. And funny enough, um. Kim posted about our session today on Instagram immediately after, and I kid you not, 3.5 minutes after she created that post, I got two DMs from people who follow and have worked with Kim saying, what did Kim book you for? How can I book one for me? So I'm thinking that this might be a thing you'll be interested in to stick around.
[00:07:36] At the end of the episode, I will tell you how we can do exactly what I did with Kim on today's episode and help you nail your guest speaking topics, and maybe even your signature talk topic. So stick around to the end of the episode, but let's jump right to it. All right, Kim, I am so stoked to have you here on the show. Welcome. Welcome to Hint of Hustle, my dear. Well, thank you so much. I'm so excited to see what comes up today. Kim and I were just chatting before we hit record, which seems to be the thing every host always says when they have a guest on a show. But we were talking. Uh, Kim and I are in a mastermind together, and a couple weeks ago she was asking a question of the group, and I very selfishly and generously said, Kim, can I just have this conversation with you on the podcast? And now we are here. So we're here today to do a live well, not really live. It's recorded, but you and I are live in the moment coaching call to help you nail in your signature topics for guest speaking because you have some big ass visibility goals this year.
[00:08:43] Um, but before we do that, why don't you take a moment just to introduce yourself since we are on a podcast, um, who you are, what you do, and maybe a little bit about what you're hoping to get out of today's call. You bet. Uh, my name is Kim Keel. I am a copy coach, a copy mentor, a direct response copywriter. And I have a specialty in writing in people's voices. So I can, like, step into your shoes. And when I write, I sound just like you. And I love helping women find their voice and then share their voice through their sales copy. So writing sales copy and writing sales copy, that sounds just like you. Is kind of my sweet spot. Uh, I live in Edmonton, Alberta in Canada, and I have been doing this gig sort of as a solo business owner for about six years. Okay, I love how you said just instantly it stands out that you are the queen of writing in other people's voices, which you and I both know. That is always a huge objection of business owners who have. I mean, we have big voices. We have very like set in how we do it. So I love that you obviously, you know, that is a key piece with that. Um, let's talk about for you, what made you raise your hand to say I need some help or some perspective around getting this topic nailed down, or a series of topics.
[00:10:03] Talk a little bit about your visibility goals this year. Yeah, sure. So inside the group that we're in, I put my name forward or was reaching out for some support because I have often held myself back from being visible and being visible on stages, guest expert sessions, and pitching myself to be on podcasts. So I really want to grow that area. And in fact, I really love doing group coaching sessions. And, uh, speaking on stages. So why I haven't really put myself forward is obviously a block that I'm dealing with, but. So I wanted to sort of force myself to get over myself and do that. But also, you know, like I'm a copywriter, there are millions of copywriter, well, maybe not millions, but there's definitely dozens and dozens of great copywriters. So I was getting all up in my head about what should my topics. Be because everyone else is talking about all these copywriting topics. So I was just all up in my head and I wanted some guidance for how do you actually choose a topic to pitch for podcasts or to speak on stages? I love that you brought up this level, both those two points, right? I think a lot of people resonate with that idea of, oh, I've been building the business and like, we know we need to get out there more, but I don't want to, like it's just easier not to.
[00:11:25] It's a little intimidating. But that piece around there, there are a ton of people who teach copywriting. I mean, not to make it dramatic, but the millions probably was closer. Like, there are a lot there are a lot of copywriters. There's a lot of speaking coaches, there's a lot of communication coaches. I don't know if you had this experience when you started your business, I sure did. Where I was convinced that there was no one else doing what I do. Like, everywhere I looked, I couldn't find anyone until the day I found so many people were doing exactly what I did. And then I was like, oh shit, like. And then I got all up in my head, I don't know, did that happen to you? No, because I think I was in the nonprofit sector before I moved into this online business world. And part of why I joined and started an online business was because I had discovered this field called copywriting, and I saw a few of the quote unquote famous copywriters. And so I knew what was possible. And so that's why I decided to hang my hat on that particular field. So yes. Then it's like, oh my gosh, I'll never be as good as them or who else is doing. And so then yeah, I then I do get up in my head then. Yeah. Is it that's it's like that equal parts inspiring and intimidating to navigate.
[00:12:44] And it never stops. It never stops. Yeah. Okay. So what would make our session today. What would make it a slam dunk for you. Like what are you really hoping to to walk away with from this call? I would love to walk away with two or maybe even three potential speaking topics that I could pitch to podcasts, and I, you know, I appreciate that there's nuances for pitching and what what their audience likes. But just to give me a bit of a roadmap for these are some three really unique topics that would help me stand out amongst the sea of copywriters. Yes. Okay. I think that is a good goal. And you did your homework that I gave you before our call today. So we have a track record to run with. So I'll loop you all in that in just a second here. Um, but go with me for a moment, because I, I'm a big fan of visibility goals, right? We all know we need to have them, but we need to anchor them towards something. So, uh, bear with me here for us. I ask you a couple questions, talk to me a little bit around what you're hoping that visibility brings to you and your businesses here. Um, I'm hoping that visibility brings me more podcast listeners because I also am a podcaster, so I'd love to grow that. Uh, of course, I would like my visibility to grow my revenue.
[00:14:06] If I could attract a few clients, that would be fabulous. But I also think that I do have a good message, and I would love to be able to create a positive impact with my message. Yeah. Okay, great. And with your let's talk about that client attraction piece. Do you typically work with clients one on one? Do you also have courses programs like what are. Give me just a little sneak peek at your offer. Sure. So I offer premium one on one private copywriting services where I will write your launch copy, your website copy. I'll develop a brand voice guide for you. Those are for business owners who are in the multi 6 to 7 figure range. Then for the, you know around the six figures to multi six figures I have a group copy coaching and mentorship program. And so that's a midpoint investment. It's, uh, 4 to 6 month, um, commitment. And I help people write. And it's a group, group, group offer. And I don't really have anything at the bottom end yet. I don't have, you know, a low ticket offer other than, like, the odd workshop that I might host. Yeah. And you have you have a variety of opt ins. And for your business, I saw that on your your kit you sent over to me. What would you say are your like top um, for any podcast or guesting that you've done at this point? What are the top quote unquote offers that you have put out? So I'm the world's worst copywriter because I don't follow the I don't practice what I preach.
[00:15:33] Uh, so I for the longest time had the worst, uh, lead magnet ever. And I have only just recently added into and I was just looking at the data the other day, in fact. And so I have one that's a sales copy scorecard and one that's a brand voice workbook. And the Brand Voice workbook is newer, but it is already getting more interest and more clicks. Cool. And I know it's newer, but have you found that either of those have led into your, let's say, group coaching program? Not yet. Not yet okay. And that's okay. It's one of those things to kind of keep in mind. Are you open that through our conversation today. If I notice that maybe there's a topic there that could be a great resource to pair with 100%, would you? Yeah. Okay. Cool. Uh, I it's kind of hard, um, when we there's a lot of us, right, that are business coaches or sales coaches or messaging coaches. Uh, what you said of being, like, a really bad, um, on on doing those things yourself. Yeah. Same. We all do that. And it's a lot of it too, is right. Because it's so ingrained in how we operate. It's different than teaching it and learning something.
[00:16:36] But at the same time, I like the parallel I always use is I do not drive like I did when I was 15.5 and learned how to drive right when you put your hands on the wheels at ten and two or whatever they tell you and you check the rearview mirror every 10s or all those types of things that you do on autopilot. You do that to learn how to drive. But now that we're adults, I mean, we can argue around the safety ness of our driving skills, but the idea is you don't think about it, right? It's second nature, but you would be able to teach that without the the process from the beginning. Yeah. And I find it's hard to read the label when you're inside the bottle. And so like, I can do for you what you're going to do for me because I can see it in you, but I can't see it in myself. Yes, it is the very. This is why we both have jobs, right? Okay, so what's fun with this is even though some of the questions I'm going to ask you, you're going to laugh, but you're like, I do this all the time. It's still interesting to go through for yourself and to have that clear the clear moment. Okay, so what I, I heard you say we want to drive more people to your podcast.
[00:17:40] We want to grow your list to become more clients. Right? So be really intentional of growing that for one on one those high ticket clients. Um, also the group coaching program. And then you also maybe do you do affiliate stuff? Uh, do you ever promote affiliate programs? I have dabbled in it, but my list is very, very small. So, you know. Yes. But so getting people into your world, priming them for client match fit, whatever type of program that is and potentially offers down the road. Okay, I think that's great. And then the third thing that you had said is that, you know, you have a damn good message and you want to make an impact. So would it be fair to say that you would like to be one of those industry people that people look up to and are inspired by, as you know, Barfi as that makes me feel? Yes, the answer is yes. Yes. Yeah, it's weird to say I want to be a big deal. I want to be known. And it is super weird to say, but also it's a required thing to own if you do want people looking at you as an industry authority and you have an obligation, in my opinion, to claim that role, if you truly want to make a bigger impact. So are you up for it, girl? Yeah. Just are you saying like that? I have an obligation to do it like that is a great shift.
[00:18:56] Yeah, it's because otherwise the people that need to hear your message, they're not going to do it right. And also, if you don't act as if you are a big deal, you are definitely going to play smaller, right? You're going to tell smaller stories, you're going to go straight to the how to and the tips, and you're not going to take up space on those podcasts. You're going to speak quickly and like get in and get out and be a little bit more transactional, even if it's not your intention. Uh, yeah. I think you're bang on right there. Yeah, yeah. All right. We've done this before. Okay. So, uh, let's let's talk about a couple of things. So when I, when I think about topics, I think a lot of people are so focused on how do I get the right topic, how do I get the perfect topic. And I my audience will will know. I say this all the time. There is no right. There is no perfect. It's honestly what we're excited about and is it aligned to our goals and our audience. So I, I look at a couple different things for us to figure out, like a sweet spot with topic ranges. I'm less worried about you developing that one talk, although I'm a big fan of a signature talk. Hell, it's my core program on what I teach, but what I find for the majority of people I work with is the signature talk isn't really developed until we vetted out some damn good topics and that the people tell us, Holy shit, that's your signature.
[00:20:18] So I like to look, there's kind of three lenses that we're going to dive into. We're going to talk about the person and the problem. Right. Which you know that like the back of your hand. But we're going to articulate it a little differently today. We're going to talk about, um, two things about you. One is your unique perspective. So I'm going to ask you a series of questions to dive into some stories today. And then the third we're going to talk about is, um, this might be a little weird, but your passion, like, what fires you up that you would get a little riled up and on some side tangents, should it come up, like, we have to have that fire, that fire piece of the thing that makes you really passionate. It might not be the topic that is most sexy or what your audience is like. Spot on to their problem. But that fire, that passion, that's the magnetic quality where audiences will literally tell you, I. I never thought this was a big deal, but you're so fired up about it. I'm now too, okay. And sometimes we have to do that for our audience. So passion problem in person and perspective. Those are the three.
[00:21:20] Imagine this like a Venn diagram. Those are the three things we're going to play with. To figure out your sweet spot topic here in the middle. And like I said, I think there's going to be a couple of them that we can pull from. Okay. So talk to us a little bit about us, me and my groupies in the background here. Talk to us a little bit about the person that you serve. You mentioned that a little bit with like thresholds of the revenue in their business. But talk about them. But more importantly, I want to know what are the like the big problems that they're having when you kind of cross into their world. So I think that the biggest problem that I'm serving with the couple of different audiences that I serve is that they're a bottleneck in their business. They're not creating or writing the copy that they need to. And for the seven plus figure business owner, it's because they have so many business obligations and they just can't get to all the volume of copy that they need to write, but they're not willing to release the reins of that and delegate it, because they don't know how to explain how to write in my voice, or they don't know how to trust that other people will be able to write in their voice. So I can help them either with creating a brand voice guide for them, to help them articulate that, or I can actually take that copyright off their plate so that they are no longer that bottleneck.
[00:22:40] So the other group that I serve are women in business who are struggling to write because we get caught up in our heads. We don't know what to say. We don't know how to say it. We overthink, we procrastinate and stall, and then we don't get our message out there. So I help women find out how to use their voice and share it through their writing, and to ask for the sale, because women have such a hard time asking for that sale. And so I can give you the language that doesn't feel skeezy. I can give you the tools so that you can prep and prime your audience so that they're ready to receive that sale. And mostly I just help people create momentum and consistency. So they are getting their message out there. Okay. That's great. So the this is no surprise, right? As a copywriter, you know your person. You know their problem. This is typically the thing that is best vetted for anyone listening. Kind of back to this later. What I find with most business owners I would be curious for you to Kim, most business owners, they have a very hard time articulating the problems of their audience. So this one here, we're going to breeze over because you know this really well.
[00:23:51] Uh, however, it is typically not so easy to find out what they think the problem is versus the true problem. There's a dance within that. We're not going to get into that today. But you have a vetted. Here's the thing that I want to point out around your problem. And you know this. You have two different people. So one of the things that you'll want to make sure that you're super clear on is when you create your topics, we can do it in one of two ways. You can create your topic kind of titles and descriptions to target that specific person so that you would be like, for example, let's say you're going to be focused more on the the multi 6 to 7 figure person, the volume of podcasts or guest speaking opportunities are going to be fewer for that kind of business owner. But guest speaking, let's say in a mastermind or in a group coaching program, you're going to have a high return on clients from that. So it would probably behoove you to have a topic really targeted for them. Uh, but that's probably not going to be to the masses on a podcast. Now, the the nuance would be, is if we find a couple topics that transcend both. You can customize the interview or the talk for those two different lenses because they are very different problems. So for you, we can approach a couple different ways.
[00:25:08] Let's add in the passion and perspective. Um, but that just for you, you already know this customizing your message to the problem. But what we bring in from your stories and your client examples that will help really shape that. Let's get in. I'm just curious on your perspective. Let's dive into a few of your stories. So which let's let's lean into your group coaching program. Let's lean into that audience. Right. Because when I think podcasts, would you agree that's more of the well, I guess not. I mean, maybe it depends. Do you have one of the two audiences that you prefer to speak to? Primarily? I think most of the content that I create is for that mid-tier woman like me, uh, who is just trying to get out of her own way and get the copy out there. Uh, and I would just like it to be easier to welcome more people in and and sell them into my program. I don't create any copy geared at that higher tier audience. It's primarily referral based, but I like to have some content so that, you know, it builds the know, like and trust. So when they're checking me out, they're like, okay, she's legit. Yep. Okay. This I'm glad we went down this road because I think this is really a this is a trap. I think that a lot of service providers who are branching into courses or coaching or more scalable options, this is where they face a lot of times, people who have done the higher end one on one, or maybe not even high end, right? Maybe they needed to raise their prices, but they all their copy and everything is written to the high end person, which is a different problem than what we're talking about.
[00:26:40] And what we want to think about is if you're using visibility, visibility, you can do it for 1 or 2 things. You're either using visibility to skyrocket your authority or and you're using it to grow your audience. And I think a lot of people are like, I wanted to do everything, but what I force people to say is, what is the one singular business objective that you are going to measure your success off of? And for you, I think it would be audience growth slash to book more of the scalable clients. Is that true? 100%? Yeah, I'm maxed out otherwise one to ones I need that. Yeah, yeah. You don't need any more clout. You don't need any more leads because you're getting them off of referrals. As you said, it's always nice to have the clout that I had those things. But you're not struggling to get clients right now, so we're not going to build a visibility strategy to go after those people. Those are going to come to you organically and you can customize anything for it. So what we have to do is keep our eyes on the paper of, how do I speak to that larger, general audience that are more of a fit for my program that I'm scaling? Okay, perfect.
[00:27:44] So let's think about, um, stories. In your experience, what has shaped your perspective? You say that you are like gangbusters at, um, helping people, like, nail their voice, right? You do that for others. But I want you to focus on you teaching others to get over that hump and get started with writing. What are some of the experiences that you've had that have shaped how you do that? So I'm glad you sort of asked me to think of this before we came on today. And I would say I come from a scientific background, so I have a degree in environmental science and communications, and I always saw a huge problem with, we're never going to solve this environmental crisis unless we can quote unquote, dumb it down, make it more digestible and understandable for people. Because if people don't understand it, they won't connect to it. If they don't connect to it, they won't solve it. So that is like my core belief is helping people take action by giving them a simple message. So that's sort of one element of it. I also have worked in the philanthropic sector for a number of decades. So that socially minded, mission driven, uh, purpose and passion is really important to me.
[00:29:02] Uh, and you can't live your mission if you can't get your message out. And then along the way, you know, I've had jobs where I. I was a park interpreter, where I had to communicate these really complicated, complex environmental issues. But I dressed up, I did musicals, I created, like, entertaining skits like little edutainment is what we called it, but sang and danced and made the learning of this complicated topic super digestible and easy to understand. And I've been able to sort of translate that into copywriting, and that's often a piece of feedback that I get all the time is that, wow, you really teach this in a way that is so simple and makes it easy to understand? Yes. Okay, I love that. Have you talked about these experiences before with your audience? Uh, I mean, in like close knit little workshops? Yes. You know, it's like a throwaway sentence in my podcast intro. But no, I've never really done like a full episode or prior to prior to me asking the question that was. Side note, that was part of the homework, right, of asking this question around what experiences had you considered or connected the dots on this before? I mean, yes, yes, but not to the point where I like, actually talk about it. Yeah, yeah. Okay. I'm gonna use a little like, side tangent case study piece right here. Are you familiar with Dory? Yeah. Okay. If you if you all don't know, go look at her on Instagram.
[00:30:28] She's an awesome, um, teaching people how to create more scalable, high ticket group coaching programs. Uh, I can't remember where I first heard her speak, but it was on a podcast years ago. The reason why I bring this up, part of her perspective that she brings. She talks about curriculum and the power of curriculum and having a clear cut curriculum. I'm going to say this word seven times because that is one of her core words, core beliefs that people must understand in order for her program to make sense. But she talks about on podcasts her experiences as an engineer, how she started as an engineer came your head nodding ferociously. You see where I'm going here, having that little credibility piece that I don't think she even worked as an engineer very long, but just dropping that she had that experience instantly builds confidence as an audience going, Holy shit, she was in. I don't know what kind of engineering I don't even remember, but honestly, it doesn't remember or doesn't matter because I remember that about her. Which ties to one of her core, um, elements, which is curriculum structure. So for you, paralleling what you just told me when you you actually did a really great job. Good job. Are you thinking about this in advance and succinctly putting this into three points? But your scientific background, that piece of communication, and whether it's in the environmental piece, give or take, right? You just add that in.
[00:31:48] But that piece around scientific background with communication, people find copywriting difficult. People know that there is some kind of science behind it, but they don't want to learn it. And they feel like if I don't learn it, I can't be successful. You bringing in that? That is how your brain is wired. And you also have the gift to simplify it. Oh, that takes like a huge weight off of me as a listener. So you weaving that in? Oh, that's really powerful. Is it your lead topic? Maybe. Maybe not. Right. But that is a key talking point that really could serve you in that sticky factor of building trust with your. I love that, especially you as a teacher. Right. Yeah. Uh, okay. Philanthropic, social. That hit on what you said that you're here to make an impact at a mission in the world, but you also know so is your person. Remember, at the top of our conversation how I told you you had an obligation to step into the spotlight? Yes. Could you see yourself saying the similar something to your. I say it all the time on my Tuesday mornings in my group coaching program. So yes. Yeah yeah yeah. So that piece there, I find this works really well for me. My background, like my big start of speaking, it came from nonprofits.
[00:33:04] And I have this story of the nonprofit. My family and I found it around my mom. I don't tell it all the time, but a lot of times when I'm guest speaking, I will bring that in because it connects me to my audience. On that service led piece, I have a phrase that I use all the time. Some people are drawn to the spotlight, others are called into it. That is my like give you chill goose bumps face. But that is what separates me from what people would call the bro marketer speaker coaches who are more scripted. I'm here to help people get their message that's on their heart out in the world and make money doing it right. Separates. You have a very similar thing. So that philanthropic piece, we got to find a story within that that could really help paint that picture. Because part of your job on these podcasts is to make people feel really good and muster up that sense of service. Um, I'm very I'm very curious around this edu edutainment piece. There's probably gonna be something within that. But I would imagine there's there's things that we can pull from. But you definitely have you definitely. Well, obviously you have great perspective to bring. Is there anything that you teach on in particular that you feel like could really dial in one of these elements and pair it with the primary problem your person has? I mean, the I think the big discovery that I made when I became when I came into this work was that these copywriting formulas exist.
[00:34:35] The frameworks that are used in direct response copywriting. And I, when I was a fundraiser, like I knew that there had to be a formula for writing this ask letter, but I could never find it. And then when I switched over into online business, it was like, oh, here's what I've been looking for all along. These recipes, these copywriting formulas. And now, like, I'm thinking, like the science of copywriting, the chemical formula, you know, like, it's all kind of like coming together for me right now, but just how to put together a persuasive argument, but layering over your voice so that it doesn't sound cheesy and sleazy because it's grounded in your personality, your voice and your words, but it's that it was the discovering the copywriting formulas that just was like, oh, everything is so much easier once you know all this. Yes. Okay. So that okay, I'll just be fully transparent and a little vulnerable here. That is the thing that intimidates me the most, is I know there are copywriting formulas. Now, I will say caveat here. I'm a manifestor by human design, so part of being a manifestor is I oftentimes can't articulate like why I do what I do or like even how it's happening. It's on autopilot. I have to go back and study it to be able to teach it.
[00:35:53] I've gotten very good at that, but I formulas freak me out. I know I need them, but they freak me out because as someone who is a very external processor, as someone who is naturally good at speaking, I've worked my ass off for it, but I am naturally good at speaking formulas. Give me the like. All of a sudden I'm awkward and I don't know what to do. And I find myself like like a like a snake wrapping around me, choking the life out of me. It makes it very hard for me to create anything with that structure, but I know that structure is necessary to get the results I'm after in the scope of copy. Right? So I wonder, I even though I have some very unique things that make me super weird and special, I don't think that problem is just me. I would imagine a lot of people struggle that they want the structure, but they feel choked by the structure. Is that something that you've discovered? Uh, no. But I can see it as you're explaining it to me. I think because a lot of the people who I work with, they don't even know where to start writing. They don't even know how to get that message out yet. And so coming up with what to say is the problem. And when they can look at this formula, it actually gives them a lot of soothe.
[00:37:08] And they're like, okay, I'm just going to start attention interest desire action. And then you like rework it and stuff. But as I'm a manifesting generator so I hear what you're saying and I, I do have some other clients who they couldn't they couldn't do this work either because of that formulaic structure. So I see what you're saying. Maybe that's a nuance difference too, right? Between your two categories of people you're so focused on, right is I probably wouldn't be in that, in that the more of the mass thing, I would probably be in the latter category of the person wanting to hire it out. Um, okay. So with that point, is one of your main messaging points when you think about guest speaking? Is the idea of the formula. The science? Is that a big part of what you typically talk about when you are on podcasts, or when you are guest speaking? I think to date I have, I have used that, like, what are the formulas that can help you write faster? How do you reduce overwhelm when you're writing? Well, it's by using these copywriting formulas. Um, so that's what I have kind of done. But I think that's also where I haven't been able to find my real differentiation in that passion that you talked about before. Yeah. Well I'm curious. Hello. Scientific, uh, science degree in environmental and communication, right.
[00:38:23] Of maybe a borrowed industry reference. Um, and maybe a metaphor or analogy to kind of bring it over. Um, but I would be curious when you, when you think about what's in your group coaching program, what are some of the types of formulas that you use or types of things like do you teach you teach sales pages? Do you teach newsletter? Like what kinds of copywriting are you teaching? Is there a category? I'm going somewhere with this. So word vomit on me for a second. So I, I the primary goal is on sales copy because I want women to ask for the sale and to ask for through writing, but it also translate into speaking as well. And then so we focus on sales pages, social copy that's going to have a conversion element to it, emails that are sales emails, but also the nurture emails that help keep that prospect really warm and primed and ready for when you are ready to launch. So it's it's really comes from a sales perspective. Okay. And with your I would imagine your program, you have like a signature method that you walk people through. Or is there a process or give me a little bit more around, um, either your framework or you don't have to teach it. Right. But tell me what you use to teach more effective sales through those platforms. So it's diving into your voice of customer. It's understanding your voice.
[00:39:48] It is, um, layering over top of it like that, uh, sales copy formula. So it's kind of those are the three areas. It's the research, it's the voice and personality. And then the words, it's okay if the answer to this is no, but do you have like a method or a framework that you reference as the backbone of your I mean, I call it the joy of copy method, but it's not really like I don't have a diagram. It's not. It's just kind of loosey goosey. But I don't have a I don't have a diagram. Okay. Um, so in that method, does it incorporate those things of like layering your customer data, your voice, and then the sales, um, the sales copy formula. Okay, great. Where I'm getting at here is when you think of whatever topic you land on or topics you land on of you knowing, um, for lack of a better term, I call this your greatest hits of knowing. Like, think about like an album. You're going to have a variety of things that you talk about over the decades. You're in business. But what we really want to do is nail it down. Regardless of what stage we're on, what podcasts we're on, we need to know what our greatest hits are because we want to. We want to program the script of what other people say about us. Okay. We want to write the script of how other people talk about us.
[00:41:07] And what happens is a lot of times when people do guesting is we start talking about all these different things, and then we're surprised when people aren't showing up or signing up or talking about us. We want to be remembered. We want to be recognized, we want to be referred. And the way we do that is nailing in the language we use on repeat. So for you, I want you to like, look at that kind of framework without a graphic. And I want you to ask yourself, what would it take for me to dial this in and own and be excited talking about it? Yeah. Does that mean you need to do a full thing about it? But for you to feel excited sharing your joy of copy? Whatever. Whatever you call it, right? Yeah. Because we we want to be you need to hype that up. Otherwise it's not hyped, right? So going back to my reference with Girisha, I said curriculum like a bajillion times that. Click for you. Yeah. If she is known for curriculum, well, I knew exactly where you were going when you brought her up. I was like, oh, I know where this is going because I know that that's what she talks about. Yep. That is for sure. A front runner on her greatest hits. Now, whether or not she's intentional with that, I would imagine by now she's intentional with it.
[00:42:18] But we need to we need to write the script for what we want to be known for. So circling back for it, you said, all right, the science background, um, the, uh, kind of that communication piece and having the formulas. Let's, um, we've talked about the problem, we've talked about perspective. But the question being is, are you, like geeked out, excited about talking about those kinds of things around bringing formulas to life, distilling their nerves or apprehensions around copywriting through formulas like, are you excited about that? I mean, I am yeah, yeah, I yes, yes Pat yes I am. Yeah yeah okay. So that's like the gut check right. Is we could talk a lot about other things. But if you're not geeked out, excited for it I mean, other people will say, yes, give me the formula. But they're not going to be like enthralled, excited about the formula. But if you are, that's what matters. Okay. Um, okay. So I think we can run with that type of thing. Let's, let's think about another couple things. I want to write a look at some of your ideas. Um, do you mind if I read a few of these out loud? You shared, um, in your doc, I asked Kim to come up with a couple different ideas of topics. Are these ones that you have presented before, or was this a brain dump of ideas? The one in my one sheet that you're looking at is that.
[00:43:34] Yeah, yeah. So, uh, no, I haven't presented all of these. Um, definitely like the five tips to make your copy more readable. Uh, the hello framework for writing about pages and, yeah, those copywriting formulas stuff I have all pitched and got on and got off and want want. Uh, so I would also love to share a bit more of my story or my journey to how I became a copywriter. Um, yeah. So I'm just going to stop there. Yeah. Okay, these are good. I'm going to read a couple of these. So she, as she mentioned, five top tips to make your copy more readable. I think everyone has one of these in them. These are really great for like if you're doing like a guest blog or like a guest post inside someone's group, those could be really great. I in my opinion, you have way more to offer on podcasts than this. As the lead topic. I think this is completely undervaluing, and it's literally putting you in the category of a sea of other copywriters. So I'm going to tell you, no, you're not allowed to leave with this. Now what I will say, you know how. Of course you're gonna know this because you're a copywriter. But when someone writes an episode description and they put the little teasers of what's coming, I would be okay with one of the teasers being and the top five tips to get more whatever from blah blah, blah like that for sure.
[00:44:53] Could be a like hook within the topic, but this Kim, you are bigger than a five tips topic, so no, try that one out. Okay, now the second topic that you wrote down was find your copy voice how to write in a way that sounds like you. Okay, let's gut check this idea into our three, um, three lenses. It brings in for sure the problem your people have, right? If your main group of people are after, they're having a hard time getting their voice into words, getting started with it, getting things out consistently so the finding their voice, how to write in a way that sounds like you, that fits right. Um, the second thing is, does this bring in a unique perspective of you? So think about your Rolodex of history. Do you have unique stories, unique perspectives around the importance of voice, and the importance of finding your own voice and how you've helped people find their voice? I believe I do. I have a background as a singer and a performer, so I have a musically trained ear, which I think is why I can write like someone else with very little effort, and then I've reverse engineered how to do that so I can. Yeah. Okay. Beautiful. So you see how he just did that? We double checked. Yes. That's a relevant problem to the group you're after.
[00:46:04] Not just your high ticket group like the the the other group were after. We've double checked that. Okay. Now you have some stories you can pull from which your homework assignment is going to actually get those stories out so you can say them clearly, succinctly, and connect it to a topic. The third piece, are you, like super jazzed up, passionate about the voice, the copy voice, your unique voice? This topic I think the like amplifying your voice, sharing your voice, and feeling confident that you're writing in a way with personality. Because I know that that's a real sticky point for a lot of women. So yes, I think the answer is yes. Yeah. Okay. So I'm going gonna say highlight this. This is an approved topic. I'm going to encourage you to think about the title of this topic, you copywriting brain to sexify this a little bit, but here's my instruction for you on this topic. I want to go back to your three objectives. Your objectives, right were number one more podcast listeners. Number two, grow your revenue through clients and number three clients, meaning group coaching program. We're gonna lean into that. And number three was to create the impact. This one here you can hit all three. But I want you to lean into the third, that third around that impact. This topic here is where you get to get on your soapbox a bit and really ramp up that the obligation to use your voice.
[00:47:20] So this one's more of a yes. We're going to talk about the how to like find your voice. Have maybe some tips, some techniques, some pieces. But your lead in is this is a you getting them jazzed up to like summon the will to do it okay. Right. So this is almost like your motivational like you earned your spot like I did with you. You take up space, right? Yep. That's this topic for you. I'm on board with it. So in your mind, categorically you're going to have like, this is my feel good. Get riled up, share some stories. But I want people leaving like fired up where sure the how to those pieces they're going to learn more. Maybe you have the freebie right? Your freebie of your, um voice guide could work with that. Great. Right? The details they can get from the guide and you can tease them a bit, but that topic is more about taking up space and their duty to need to share. Love it. How does that feel? Feel so good? Because I was like, how do I how do I even begin with this? But you've you've really made it concrete for me. Yeah, yeah. What I like to look at is I use a lot of metaphors as you're gauging for me, I like to think about, like, a spotlight where we look at a topic and then we determine where are we going to shine the light on this topic.
[00:48:33] And we're most people, when they would see this is I'm going to read it again, find your voice. How to write in a way that sounds like you. Where the light is shown is on the teaching. Let me give you the tips. Let me give you the tactics. Let me give you the list. Let me teach you how to do it. I am. If you're all just listening to this, I'm pretending like I'm holding a spotlight and I'm shifting it. Here we go. I'm going to turn it to the left versus to the right. And the left is. Why does this matter? I don't care about the how. I don't even care about the what right now. I want to know why does this matter? And that's where the spotlight is going to stand for you on this topic. Great. Yeah. And how you make the opt ins go fiery crazy on this one is you make the opt in the detail, right. Give them the framework. Give them a system, give them a measurement. Give them something that's going to help them take action on this. Now that you got them fired up. I definitely see that this one can have your storytelling in it for sure. Is there any stories that come to mind for you around this topic around voice? Mm.
[00:49:35] Um, I nothing concrete that is coming to mind. Um, well, I mean, just the fact that, like, I'm so tired of seeing panels of white dudes speaking and mansplaining at me. And I'm a Gen Xer. I am sandwiched and I am craving to hear people with my experience. And so that's really sort of like my submission is to, like, amplify the voices of Gen Xers and help them take the stage. Yeah. Okay. Just side note, just the fact that you just hit on that Gen X piece with voices. I don't hear anyone talking about that. So that write that down. That's a unique perspective. Who's talking about. Well side note, Nate, I can't remember his name. He's a comedian. Um, I started I found him on my, uh, TikTok or something. He's hilarious. Uh, but he is a cusper, which is my husband and I are two. Like, we're right there. The elder elder millennials. My husband will not category himself as that, right? He's like, I was born in 81. I am not a millennial. I'm like, you are by like in that year. Anyways, Nate, he had this whole bit around how he's like in the middle and he did this whole like funny thing around the different generations. But this forgotten piece anyways, AI generation things um, a lot of people give a lot of hype around millennials and Gen Z and then boomers, but there is a whole room to play.
[00:51:10] You don't have to do a whole thing around this. This is I don't think this is a topic, but I definitely think this would be a little hot bullet point when somebody like, talked about of why either Gen X or the Cuspers are overlooked, but have the most to offer. Yes, in different perspective or something. I did record a podcast episode about like Gen X women and why we need to hear more, and I recorded a year ago, and it is like one of the most popular episodes that I have. Okay, well, that should tell you something. So maybe that actually it maybe it is a topic which. Side note, I think that would be a fun topic. I would have you come back on the show and actually talk about that specifically, uh, because I, a lot of my audience. Right. They're not super young. They're also wouldn't classify themselves as like super old, although I feel pretty old. Uh, but that in like, I think that has a piece of it. So side note, we're going to go off on a tangent here because you brought it up twofold. You said that your number one objective was to drive more podcast listeners. What I want you doing, this is you after our call today is you're really getting into these topics. I want you to say, what podcast episodes do I have that to relate to this story or this teaching point? So that way you can easily slip in? Oh yeah, I get all fired up about this.
[00:52:20] In fact, one of my number one episodes is all about this. Shoot me a DM on Instagram and I'll send you the direct link. Got it? Love it. Do that all the time. You can use Manychat if you want to set up an automation to it. I'm not fancy like that yet, so I usually I want to have conversations with people who hear me on podcasts, so I'm sometimes will do a, uh, like a secret podcast playlist for people who listen to me on a specific podcast. I'll say, hey, I'm going to curate a list of episodes that perfectly pair with what we talked about today. Shoot me a DM on Instagram and then boom, you're now in conversation with them. And two, you now get them onto your show. Love it and I so you can I am low tech as well. Like the simpler the better. I'm just like, hello, it's a DM. I can answer you. It's fine. I do not have millions of followers so you can try that piece. But the other thing that you said when you lightbulb clicked that that's one of your top episodes, that's another way for you to look at, is go through your episode history and say what other topics are people talking about, and then run through those same three filters we talked about today.
[00:53:25] Love it. That's great. Okay, so we so far have two topics for you. We have something around the like the science slash formula. Um, we need to come up with what the angle is around that. So I'm going to circle back to that in a second. We know that copy voice one. That one is for sure. Let me read a couple of these other ones you had me at. Hello! Framework for writing about pages. Tell me a little bit more about this. So this is uh, the about page is one of the hardest pieces of writing for most of us. And yet it is the second most visited page on your website. Uh, and so I have created a formula, my own recipe for how to organize the information on that page. Uh, so it's a very tactical training. It's more like a workshop, probably. I have done it as a podcast guest episode, but it was difficult to walk through the formula. Yeah, so what I would do is I think that actually is a very specific problem, a very sexy problem, and also a hell of a creative framework on the hello framework for an about page, because the fundamental problem we're solving is why is it so damn hard to talk about ourselves? Write that down. That is the title of it. Why is it so damn hard to talk about ourselves? I have this in my little repertoire.
[00:54:41] We do it in different ways. You can steal it, run with it. Um, but that that piece, I'm going to borrow exactly what I said before with the spotlight metaphor on this right now, when you're approaching as a training, you're shining the light on the technicalities and the framework. I want you to move the spotlight over and say, for podcast interviews, we're going to talk more about why this is so damn hard, but why it's important to master it. And then if they want, you can give them a couple tips and topics. But then topics. Words are so hard, uh, tactics. And then you can have a resource that goes into your one page hello formula for writing. So smart. That would be a killer. I love it. I'm in. Okay, so we know for sure the voice one is awesome. The hello framework for sure. Why is it so damn hard to talk about ourselves? Um, okay, I'm gonna read this one. The power of copywriting formulas to cut down time and increase creativity in your writing. Okay, so this one hits on where we want to go, but we're gonna go a different angle. So talk to me a little bit. Now that we've been rambling now for 40 something minutes, how now that we've done this to voice and we've done this to the about page piece, where's your brain at? When you think about what you could bring to the industry around formulas or the power of formulaic copywriting? Well, I think this is where that sort of science and simplification comes in.
[00:56:08] Um. But to be like, now that we've just, like, I've gotten so excited about the voice and you know why it's so hard to talk about ourselves like, this feels a little bit more womp womp. Yeah. So the passion, the passion, I'll go down on it. Yeah. Because your passion skyrocketed on those other two. I mean, uh, just visually you lit up your whole body language change. Your tone of voice changed when you got excited about those two. You just saw the possibilities in your eyes. Yeah. Okay, so that tells you on those rating scales, I think the formula one is definitely one of your greatest hits. But in terms of you being fired up to do a podcast tour, you know what you need to lean. Now, here's the cool part is these are your greatest hits voice. Uh, we're talking about, like, how to talk about yourself when it's awkward to talk about yourself and the power of formulas. Those are your greatest hits. So even when you're talking about voice, you could do a nod to both those other ones the power of formulas, the oversimplification. Like however you want to phrase that that should be a talking point on both of them. Then you can kind of weave that in.
[00:57:18] Um, but girl, I think you have three topics there. I think I do. Yeah. So the question would be is we need to find something around the formulas to be as sexy and as exciting as the other two. So my gut is telling me it's less about the formula, and maybe we need to lean into the problem a little bit more. It's that where the formula is more of the how to, but what's what's the lead problem we want this to really address. It's really that I don't know what to write. I don't know how to write. When I sit down, I just stare at the page and nothing comes out. Or I word vomit all over the page. But how to? How do I package that into a sexy title? I don't know. Yeah. So it's, um, I don't want to say cure because that's Marie Forleo's copy cure thing. Right. But it is. This is it's the solution to this is oversimplification, but writer's block or like writer's diary. No. Ah, yeah. So maybe. Maybe not so graphic. Or maybe I'm good. I'm good with, um. So. But that, like, it's. So you see where I'm going with that. The topic you can lean into the problem more, um, versus the like the solution. Because I think once you're on a podcast, you telling your story around your scientific background and but specifically leaning into how your brain leans into how do I simplify this? And you can pull from your experience when you were doing that interpreter edutainment work, right, is the challenge was, how do I take these really complicated problems and simplify them for this group because they have to master it.
[00:58:59] That's your whole premise for this idea, and you got good with that. So when you got into copywriting, you learned, oh, these formulas are this, but they're so confusing to people now I make them simple. That is the story that you tell to get people sold on it. But you can start with a that more pressing problem they have. The question is how do we make it sexy? I can figure that out, I think. Yeah, okay. Okay. Any, uh, any other on your list that you want to talk through? I mean, the next one on the list there is, like this. Old dogs can learn new tricks. Like, I started my business when I was 42, and I know a lot of women in middle age are like, I can't start something new. And honestly, it was like, the best thing I've ever done. And I would love to empower more women to do that for themselves, to create that freedom. Uh, and to leverage that. Yeah. Okay, I have I'm gonna interrupt you because I have I have a, uh. I just had this idea that I hadn't had before. I've been swirling around in my brain for a while, but I couldn't articulate it right until this moment.
[01:00:03] Okay, side note. We're gonna go on a little side tangent here. One of the things, as a podcaster myself, I get a lot of pitches from people all the time for the show. And last year, when I rebranded my show from the Heather Sager Show to Hint of Hustle, I made the conscious decision that I was going to be very, very choosy around the quote unquote expert topics, because what I found is people are doing this. Let me go on a podcast road tour and just regurgitating a version of their webinar on all of these. And it was very, very clear that the number one goal these people had was to get in front of my people so they can sell them, which I say two tiered, um, like coin or two sided coin, which is what we're doing, right? It's why we do visibility. But when other people can sense it a mile away, where it just feels like a one night stand interview, that doesn't feel good to anyone involved. So I made the decision that I wanted to interview business owners and yeah, tap in a little bit to their expertise, but I wanted to hear more of their stories. And so this brings me to my moment of clarity right here. I'm curious, Kim, could we actually organize your guest speaking topics and put them into two lanes? I think I'm going to make this a thing as you're witnessing a moment right here where, um, I'm envisioning like two columns or like two categories.
[01:01:21] Category one is like expert topics. Category number two is like, I don't know what to call this, but something about like, um, unique experience or like, um, um, I don't know what to call this, but like, it's more of the experience of being an entrepreneur or more of, like the life experiences that are like the backbone of the expertise. You see what I'm saying here? Because if I were to get a pitch that, yeah, the expert topics, I honestly usually just breeze by them because most of the time I'm looking for referrals. I want to know that people legit know what they're talking about, are going to take care of my people. But if I got a pitch that also had like, like when I, my ears perked up and I was like, oh, the Gen X Cusper thing, that's interesting. It's not your expert topic, but it's like a like a sidecar topic. You see where I'm going with this? Yeah. So I think your Gen X thing, this old dogs can learn new tricks. And then this last one you have on here, um, how my annual salary became my monthly salary as a writer. That's an interesting, like, case study style piece. So I'm actually wondering if you have categorically topics where you have the expert topics you have more of these like story based experiences and or even a case study, okay.
[01:02:40] That as a podcaster, that would allow me to go, oh, she's got a case study like example like that would be interesting on the show. Cool. Does this make sense? It really is. Yeah. Yeah, I think it is pretty brilliant. I'm gonna make this a thing like you heard it here for the first time. Visibility. Categories. Um, yeah, because I love all these topics that you listed here. And these are totally story led, which you said you really want to do a lot more. And it goes to your third strategic goal around impact and reaching more people. Yep, I like that. Okay. So do you want to run with that? Yeah. Let's do it I'm good with that. This is where it's like the beautiful part. You're a copywriter. So you could put titles to all these things, which I suck at the titling part. So maybe we're gonna need to collaborate at some point on that. Yeah. I mean, you've just really given me, um, the permission to go where I think my heart really wanted to go. And then also the like, how to do it. And that simple technique of. I was very focused on the deliverable, and you've helped me to shine the spotlight on the problem or the, the, the challenge that people are facing. And it's sort of like the core of that story.
[01:03:52] And then it's the how to that is sort of like the little bonus piece. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, that's why a lot of people have a hard time getting conversions off of their interviews is because when they spend all that time on that teaching, it's like, oh, I got what I need. Totally. Right. I don't need I don't need to download the thing because I now my mind is my mind is racing with all of these ideas. I don't need more. Right. Thank you. You've done your job versus when you tell these stories and focus on the why. It almost like it gets people like fired up to act. And then they're like, well, hold on, I want to make sure I'm doing it right. Let me get the download. Yeah. No. And just how you articulated to use sort of that hello framework for about pages that like, I mean that's, that's now a new lead magnet or even like a mini offer that I can sell. So yeah, I okay. So let's go back and summarize here because we have so you have three really good topics. Plus now this whole category of like case studies experience perspective I love that. And the great part about those is you don't have to worry about being all like strategic about those. Those can be play, right. They can be fun. And I would argue from the play and fun, you're probably going to end up booking clients from it, right? But that gives you space just to have fun, which I think is really important for us as kind of creative entrepreneurs.
[01:05:07] But those first three, the voice, the hello framework and then the formula piece, having some kind of download for each of those, I think that would be I think that would be gold. And then pairing that with what we talked about some kind of Instagram DM. Yes. Yep. And pairing it to podcast list. Um, and again, you don't have to be fancy. I let me just be very clear. I did not have a private podcast playlist. I had a, um. What we did is we used Buzzsprout for a podcast and I had my VA. We can create tags in Buzzsprout and we tagged, um, I think like top show or like Storytel. We created a couple tags based around my speaking topics. And then what we just did is we pulled a podcast player out of Buzzsprout with just that tag, put it on a landing page. There is no opt in. We and then when people DM me, I just send them the private link to that page. And now I have a conversation starter. I love it, it's not fancy. I mean, that might sound fancy, but like, it's not all about like, give me your name and your email. It's about carrying the conversation forward.
[01:06:13] And I think that personal connection and how people connect with you when they hear your voice and sense your personality like, that's so much better than some kind of like quick sell, upsell, squeeze page funnel that you know, other people are promoting. I really love that sort of personal connection. So that really resonates with me. Same same girl. I feel the same with it. All right. We, uh. I feel like we covered a lot of ground. Oh, my gosh, I feel like I need to lay down, uh, and just like, uh, metabolize all of this amazing, tremendous, uh, genius that you've just shared with me. So I really appreciate it, Heather. Thank you. Of course. I'm excited to see you run with it. If you had to sum up your experience on our call today in just a couple of words, how would you how are you feeling right now? I am feeling energized about the possibility. And it's not it's it's not about like what it's going to do for me, but it's how I'm going to be able to help more people. And it's that that obligation piece, like I'm obligated. Now. Now that you've like, shown me, you've spotlighted it for me. Now I'm obligated to go down that path. And I'm I'm excited about it for sure. I'm excited to just like I mentioned, you're the energy and you shifted when you started getting super excited about the possibility of these topics and that, like, that's the magnetic quality that really just makes visibility so much more effective.
[01:07:39] Uh, hey Kim, thank you so much for having this conversation with me on the podcast. Like, this was super cool to do live. I've never done this before, so thank you for being the first, uh, to do this. I hope that we do this again. Um, both me and you. I hope the jam out again. But also, I hope to do more coaching on the show. Um, for those, like listening who are like, wait, hold on. I love these topics. I want to book Kim as a guest on my show or learn more about what you do. Where is the best place for them to connect? So I think the best place to connect is at Kim Wkyc.com. Uh, you can also find me on the social channels and shoot me a DM. I'm really like, again, I'm really high touch, intimate person to person. And of course, if you like learning tips, strategies and you want to know more about like some of these formulas that I've talked about, my podcast Ill Communication, is a very short form, bite sized podcast that'll just give you like one formula, one writing prompt, one tip that you can take away. So you'll find that on all the players. That's awesome. And of course we will link to all of that below. But I really hope, like seriously y'all, if you heard those topics today and want to have Kim on your show or in your audience, definitely reach out and be sure to tell her it came from this show.
[01:08:53] We made history today, Kim. Yeah. All right, girl, thank you so much. Thank you. Heather. Woo! Well, you made it to the end of the episode. Wasn't that so freaking good? I am stoked to see what Kim does with these speaking topics. A really cool thing is, since she's a copywriter, you know she's going to have some epic descriptions and titles for these topics, so I cannot wait to see where she takes it. Uh, as I mentioned at the start of this episode, I already had multiple people DM me. Two people say, hey, what did she do with you and how can I book you? And that was just off of her Instagram story saying how she fired. She was up working with me on this call and how excited she is for her visibility. So now that you know what we did together, if you would like to get my brain on your business, to have me go through and coach you and pull the expertise out of your brain and help run through you through a similar exercise with Kim today, you have a couple options, my dear. If you would like to work with me one on one, I am taking a hand.
[01:09:53] A handful of people this quarter, if you head on over to Heather Sager. Com go to the work with me page. There'll be a section when you scroll down around how you can book a call with me. It'll be like a strategy call. This is the topic that we can use for your strategy call. So it'll be a visibility strategy call where we'll dial in your speaking topics so you can learn more about that at Heather Soccer.com. Go to my work with me page and you can get the latest menu of how we can work together. Or if you'd like to get started on this on your own. Of course, y'all know I have a resource to help you get your guest speaking topics nailed down. So if you head on over to Heather sager.com/topic, you will find my latest free resource where I help you nail in your guest speaking topics. So go ahead and grab that Heather Soccer.com forward slash topic. Grab that. Get started on getting your perspective, your angle around how you're going to take the world by storm this year. Reach more people, get your stories out and reach more of the person that you're meant to help. I hope you enjoyed this one and I will see you on the next episode. Amazing, right? Can you see how showcasing your expertise through a live coaching session can be a great marketing tool? Now, before I go, I want to hook you up with Heather.
[01:11:17] Make sure you follow Heather's podcast Hint of Hustle. It's so good! Find Heather on Instagram and if you're looking for a speaking coach, you might want to consider her group program, the Speaker Society, which will be opening up again very soon. I'll drop all the links to connect with Heather in the show notes. And finally, a shameless plug to remind you to invite me to speak on one of your stages. My inbox is open for invitations and referrals, so please help a girl out. Thank you so much for joining me today. Next week I'll be back with another quick copy recipe. You do not want to miss. I'll see you then. Hey, thanks for tuning in to today's episode. But before you go, tell me if this sounds familiar. You've just written or had someone else write your website or course, or a mastermind sales page. Or maybe you've had the copy up and running for a while, but it's just not performing as well as you'd hoped. Wouldn't you love to have an expert sales and brand voice copywriter review your copy to flag any concerns that might be creating friction for your ideal client. Wouldn't you love to get a custom list of changes and recommended copy upgrades to immediately increase your signups and sales, without having to pay thousands of dollars or wait weeks to get your copy optimized? If that sounds like you, you might be interested in my no BS copy audit.
[01:12:46] When you book a no BS copy audit, you'll get a deep dive review of your copy, a video review, a detailed checklist report, and some copy punch ups you can use immediately, all delivered within ten business days. Jennifer and Linda recently booked an OBS audit for their conference sales page. They'd hired different people to write and design the page, but it never matched what they envisioned, and the conference sales were practically non-existent. Within a few days of booking their no BS audit, they had a detailed report of what was working, what needed to be optimized, and suggested coffee. They went from barely selling any tickets to selling out 300 seats at their event. They said we are so grateful for how you went above and beyond in your work for us. You somehow crawled into our brains and were able to put into words exactly what we were thinking and imagining. We've been looking for you for a long time, you overdelivered and we can't thank you enough. No BS audits are delivered within ten business days and are a fraction of what it normally costs to work with a professional copywriter. If you want to book this quick and very effective service, visit Kim Kilcommon audit to download a PDF info sheet that gives you all the deets and a link to book your audit. Within ten days, you can have some refreshed conversion focused copy and a roadmap to make other improvements and changes to get more leads, more clicks, and more sales with your copy. To book yours, visit Kim Kilcommon audit.
Resources Mentioned
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On her podcast, Hint of Hustle
Get her latest freebies on her website
Join Heather’s program, the Speaker Society
Additional Resources
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