51: Ethical sales and marketing for coaches with Master Coach, Molly Claire
If you've ever thought writing sales copy feels sleazy or you're worried about doing things wrong, this episode of ill communication is for you. I sat down with one of my past clients and a dear soul, Molly Claire.
We had a conversation filled with practical tips to help you write copy that's aligned with your values, speaks to your clients, minimizes harm, and sells your services in an ethical and elegant way.
This is a replay of when I was a guest on Molly’s show, The Masterful Coach Podcast and I know you’ll love it.
Molly is a 7-figure business builder, a solo parent with 3 kids and 2 dogs, the author of a bestselling book, the host of a top-rated podcast, AND a Master Certified Life Coach with her own Master coach certification program.
And she does this all with one of the most joyful dispositions of anyone I’ve ever met. You’re gonna love her.
Topics We Cover in This Episode:
The story of how I became a copywriter
How your message influences your relationship with your audience
The pledge I took to commit to showing up online ethically and authentically
The power of thinking of sales as an act of service, love, and joy
A way to make your copy more readable
How to avoid falling into the trap of coach-speak
How to ethically help people move forward with your offer
How to use The Rule of You for ethical messaging
Tips to minimize harm in your copy
The importance of being mindful of the timeline you give people to purchase
I hope you enjoyed this replay episode with Molly. Please check out her website and her coaching programs, including her Advanced Coaching Certification in Motherhood and Family Life Coaching at mollyclaire.com. And of course, subscribe to her podcast The Masterful Coach Podcast.
Let me know what you think about this episode! Send an email to me at hello@kimkiel.com. I’d really love to hear from you!
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[00:00:03] Welcome to Ill Communication, Copywriting, Tips and sales strategies for small Business. I'm your host, Kim Keel. I'm a copy coach, sales strategist and direct response copywriter. It's my mission to help women leaders and change makers amplify their voices through copy. It's why I'm dishing out all the juicy tips, writing prompts and sales formulas to help you generate more leads, book more calls, and get more high value clients on repeat. Sounds pretty good. It's time to ditch the overwhelm you might be feeling and find confidence in your copywriting so you can get your message out there and attract more soulmate clients. Let's get started. So I don't think I can ever claim to be busy again. After you meet today's guest podcast host, [00:01:00] you'll understand why she's a seven figure business builder, a solo parent with three kids and two dogs. The author of a best selling book, the host of a top rated podcast and a master certified life coach with her own master coach certification program. And she does this all with one of the most joyful dispositions of anyone I've ever met. You're going to love her. Hello and welcome to episode 51 of the Ill Communication podcast. Today you're hearing a replay of a conversation I had with one of my past clients and a very dear soul, Molly Clare.
[00:01:38] Molly hired me to work on sales copy for a launch and she's brought me into her coaching community as a guest expert to help her coaches optimize their copy and messaging. Molly is a life and business coach who helps coaches and women entrepreneurs make more money and enjoy more personal and family time. I really love how she helps her clients [00:02:00] prioritize what they value in their lives and then shows them how to build lucrative businesses around that. Molly invited me onto the Masterful Coach podcast a while back to talk about ethical marketing and sales copy. Now, I haven't spoken much about ethical marketing here on the podcast, so I'm delighted to share this rebroadcast with you. If you've ever thought writing sales copy feels sleazy or you're worried about doing things wrong, this episode and conversation is for you. It's filled with very practical tips to help you write. Copy that's aligned to your values, speaks to your clients, minimizes harm, and sells your services in an ethical and elegant way. Here's the replay of our conversation.
[00:02:48] Hey, coaches, I have an amazing episode for you today. I have here with me Kim Kiehl, who is a copywriter extraordinaire. And I was so happy to [00:03:00] connect with her for many reasons. First of all, because she had a reputation for being amazing at not only copywriting, but truly bringing to life the person who she is writing for and really bringing them into it. And I'll have her talk more about that, of course. And also, I actually found this out after the fact that I love this about Kim, is that being ethical in her copywriting practices is a big deal for her and she can tell you more about that. But I'm going to introduce you to Kim. She is amazing at what she does. She's worked with my groups, helping them with their copywriting, and she's ethical, which is all amazing. So welcome, Kim.
[00:03:39] Hey, thanks, Molly. Thanks for having me. I'm glad to be here.
[00:03:42] Yeah, this is so great. I'm really excited about this because, I mean, anyone running an online business and certainly coaches, there's some amount of copywriting involved, right?
[00:03:52] Just a tiny bit. Now there's so much copy to write when you're running a business.
[00:03:58] Yes. Yes. And [00:04:00] and especially starting out. I know not everyone is ready to hire a copywriter right away. And so I think that's why I think it's great that you can share what you do. And of course, people can connect with you if they're ready for that. And also, I appreciate you just giving some tips to my audience.
[00:04:15] Yeah, I'd love to share. You know, it wasn't too long ago that I set out to become a copywriter, like a professional freelance solo entrepreneur. I actually for many, many years previous to becoming a business owner myself, was working in the nonprofit sector and I was in the environmental movement. I was in the arts industry, and I was always on the front lines of communication, trying to help people take action, positive action, and to donate money. And so as a fund raiser in charities, I learned how to write persuasively, but not in a way that like, would make someone go like, ooh, it'd be in a way that would make somebody, like, feel really [00:05:00] emotionally connected and then want to take some action, like opening their wallet or like signing their name on a petition or something like that. Then about 4 or 5 years ago, I'm sure any mom who's listening will relate. I was juggling the childcare juggle like I constantly had to keep finding new childcare because it would fall through, it wouldn't match the schedule. And I had a kid who was starting kindergarten and I'd lined up this brilliant day home to to look after my son and allow me to continue working sort of full time. And she fell through and I was like at my wits end wondering how am I going to make this happen? And so I kind of quit on the spot and decided to launch my own business. And I kind of went with what I knew which. Two is how to communicate persuasively. And when I stepped into this online world, I discovered an entirely new ecosystem of [00:06:00] businesses, business owners, the whole world of coaching. And I realized that I have a real skill that I can bring to the table that can actually help solve a pain point that so many business owners have, which is how do you write your own copy in a way that elegantly sells your services and your wares, but also, you know, gives the business owner time back so that they can focus on their zone of genius. So that's a little bit about how I became a copywriter.
[00:06:31] Yes. Yeah. And I love that because you you do copywriting for coaches and then you also like in my groups, you've come and actually helped to give them guidance and direction and feedback. And I think that both save time, right? Because whether you're taking it completely off their plate or mostly off their plate or helping them to give them some guidance because, I mean, how much time do coaches spend in fear [00:07:00] not getting started and questioning themselves And there's more time wasted with the copywriting process than actually writing in the copywriting process.
[00:07:09] It is so true even for copywriters. We spend a lot of time staring at that screen wondering like, what do we write? How do we write it? And especially for ourselves, like, let's just give everyone permission to say it's really hard to write your own copy. Like whether you're a professional copywriter or not. Like, it is hard, but there are lots of good tips and strategies. And as I became a professional copywriter learning some of these formulas and frameworks, I realized I had really been missing out throughout my entire career, not knowing some of these frameworks and strategies that would have cut down the time, cut down the overwhelmed and helped bring back some joy. So whether I'm coaching people or teaching people and workshops, some of those strategies and frameworks or doing it 1 to 1 as a 1 to 1 service for my clients, [00:08:00] it all comes from a place of like, let's cut down the overwhelm, let's increase joy and let's get more sales totally right.
[00:08:07] And it's like copywriting is the way that many people first connect with their clients, right, is what's written. And that's how that initial like I always say that the most important thing in terms of your client having progress is the relationship they have with you. And that relationship is established right away with the way someone feels when they're reading your message. It's reading your message.
[00:08:34] Yes. Whether they're reading your message, whether they're seeing how you communicate on video, whether they're reading the caption you put onto social media. And I mean, we're in this online world now. We used to be meeting people face to face and they would connect that way. So now we need to just be really creative of and strategic in how we communicate to foster that same kind of connection. And there's a few ways you can do that when [00:09:00] you're showing up, whether it's speaking your message or writing your message to make sure you can create that know, like and trust.
[00:09:06] Yes. Yes. Okay. I love it. So and I know Kim is going to be sharing really three specific ways to make your copy more readable. But before we dive into that, so Kim, you've shared kind of how you came to be here. Tell my audience a little bit more about the ethical pledge that you've taken and why and what that means. Sure.
[00:09:28] So I have pledged to I don't really want to call it call it an institution, but it's more of a movement called the Ethical Movement. And it is a community of people who have come together to commit to showing up online and doing no harm through our copy and through our messaging and through our sales specifically. So we want to approach how we sell ourselves and our services ethically and without using overly dodgy, [00:10:00] sleazy, sort of it's called bro marketing tactics, but it's not limited to the bros. The ladies can get in on it as well. It's just making sure you're really approaching sales and connection with authenticity and with awareness of where your customer is. So you're not going to trigger them into having a panic response to buying from you. So you're not going to trigger them into investing in something that really isn't going to help them, and that you're using really ethical approaches to walking someone through that customer journey to the point of inviting them to work with you.
[00:10:37] Yeah, yeah, I love that because I think there's a big difference between connecting with people's emotions in a way that compels them to work with you for like helping this. Making a difference, right, Versus using just fear tactics to get someone to make an impulsive decision. I don't feel like it comes from a [00:11:00] great place if you really want to build a meaningful ethical business.
[00:11:05] I agree. And I think that, you know, I think that's what you bring through your coaching community as well. Is that like connection and coming from a place of service. And one of my own mentors has always said sales is service like it's an act of service. It's how you share your gifts with the people who actually need your help. And when we don't actually ask for the sale, we're withholding our love from our community. We're not allowing people to access the gifts and genius that we have. But the challenge is, and especially for women, we maybe don't resonate with that sort of salesy type of marketing, or we have a belief that sales is really gross and we don't want to engage in sales. But I think when you can start to think of sales being of service and being an act of love and being an act of joy and an act of exchange, then it gives us more permission [00:12:00] to show up and sell in a way that actually feels authentic and true to our values and our purpose.
[00:12:08] Yes. Yes, totally. I always teach about like finding your unique sales energy. That's that like authenticity and being you and connecting with and loving people. And that's like that's the kind of sales that feels good, right? It's the service focused process.
[00:12:23] So yeah, And one of the tips that I have for making your copy a little bit more readable is if you think about how would you communicate to your best friend, Like you wouldn't talk to your best friend like, you better buy now. You better come with me. We're going to go shopping. Like, let's let's get this thing on the road. You have five minutes to make a decision or I'm out of here. We're never going to be friends again. Like you Don't talk to your best friend like that. You're like, Hey, there's a great sale going on. I think you should come with me. Like, let's go see if we can find some new shoes. Like you engage in a conversation, you approach it with love, you approach it with delight, [00:13:00] you create a little joy, and then you guys work towards the outcome. So I think my one of my tips for making your copy more readable is to write in a way, communicate in a way as if you're actually talking to your best friend or to a beloved friend. It just instantly changes how you would communicate and also like what words you would say. You'd probably start ditching some of that jargon. And the industry speak that unfortunately coaches have a tendency to get a little bit wrapped up in the coach speak. So it's like, how do you explain to your best friend what you do?
[00:13:34] Yes. Oh, my gosh. We literally I just did a whole call with my group on helping them translate coach, speak into like what your clients are thinking. And it's like we were talking about, okay, make the list of all the things you think they need and then step over here. What are they saying about this? How is this showing up for them? So, yes, how would you say this to your best friend? And one thing I was going to ask you is with regard to this, what do you see making [00:14:00] that challenging for coaches to be able to actually do?
[00:14:04] Well, I think because we go to coach certification, we go to training, we get like in our little bubble where everybody is speaking that same language. Yes. And we believe it. And we know how beautiful that transformation is. It's just that everyone outside that bubble don't talk that language. So my next tip is actually to go outside of your bubble and talk to your customers, do some research, join different forums, Reddit threads, visit different Facebook groups where people are having conversations about the challenges that they have that you solve. And you'll hear the words that they use to describe like what does overwhelm actually mean to them? Or what are their goals for finding their their truest selves? Like they're not going to probably use those terms, but they're going to use terms that really describe the problems that they're having. Yeah, I [00:15:00] also love and part of my process with any client that I work with and when I'm coaching, people who want to copyright better is to interview your own customers or interview prospective customers and just have a conversation and you'll hear the words that they say. And then if you use those words in your headlines, your subheads, in your calls to action are like the button copy. When you want to get somebody to click a link to, then either download your free resource or buy your item, That's going to be a way so that you don't fall into that trap of coach speak or even sales speak.
[00:15:37] Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So yeah, like I want to come back to what you just said. Actually, I'm flagging that, but before I do, yes, it's like, what are the words they're using? Because. When someone when I read something and it's like I'm someone knows what is in my mind or oh, I relate to what I'm hearing, right? So it's use the [00:16:00] words that they use speak those words.
[00:16:02] You want your customer or your potential client when they're reading your copy, whether it's a social post or whether it's your website or a sales page, you want them to be like, Oh my gosh, It's like you were reading my mind. It's like you were in my head. And when we see that as a as a buyer, it gives us a sense of trust and it makes us feel safe that, okay, you really understand me. And I believe that you can probably help me solve my problems because you've articulated my challenge so well.
[00:16:34] Yes. Yes. Okay. I love that. So I wanted to come back to because I've I've helped my clients a lot of times with coach speak, I haven't really talked about sales speak. So talk about differentiate. So coach speak is really it's it's like when my clients come to me and say that what their niche is, is helping women manage their mind. And I'm like, those women don't want help managing their mind.
[00:16:57] Nobody's lying awake in the middle of the night wondering [00:17:00] like, when am I going to learn how to manage my mind?
[00:17:02] Right, Right. And and you think that, right? Because like in the coaching world, we are in the coaching world and we're getting, you know, messages about that and we talk like that. So coach speak, is that right? It's like talking about things in a way that coaches understand but not normal people understand. So talk a little bit about sales speak.
[00:17:22] That's a good question. So sales speak to me would be the kinds of things that you see coming into your promotions tab in your inbox. So it's from a lot of the the brands that are selling you buy now on sale get this now disappearing soon. It's very high pressure, lots of all caps, lots of exclamation points. There's usually some scarcity involved, like only two left like so it's not necessarily true or you're kind of questioning like, is that really true? Or are there really only two left? Or is this promotional price really only available for the next 30 minutes? [00:18:00] We find on a lot of the online marketing, there are things called like a deadline funnel, which is where you might have opt in like a freebie that you're offering to your community and you allow somebody to subscribe or exchange their email for that free resource. And on the thank you page, there's a limited time offer buy Now this is an exclusive opportunity to get this never before seen deal, and there's probably some blinking lights and a countdown timer telling you that you only have 30s to get this savings. But the reality is, if you actually signed up with another email, you'd probably get the same deal again and again. So it's false scarcity.
[00:18:43] Yes, it's.
[00:18:44] Yes, it's like a false deadline and it's a false use of a countdown timer. And it's all meant to trigger this like FOMO response in us. And that is like one of the rules that you would definitely not want to follow. If you're trying to be an ethical marketer, you definitely want to just [00:19:00] if it's not true, don't fake it. Like don't fake scarcity, don't fake. The doors are closing for the last time. Just be real because people want to buy from somebody who's real and buy from somebody who's authentic.
[00:19:12] Yes, I. I have been exactly where you're talking about. I've had that before. And you're like and that you're always wondering, is this really true? Like, is this really going to go away? And then I've had that thought, well, I can sign up with another email. And I we did actually. So, you know, we have this big family. We've got eight kids combined. And I wanted to buy these, you know, those gigantic beanbags with the Ottomans. And I started looking into them because I'm like, you know, when we're all together, it's kind of nice to lounge around. And remember it was it was a holiday weekend and I got on and it was like, you know, the Ottoman was free. And and I was talking to my husband. I'm like, maybe we should do it. And I really thought it was like a special thing because of this. And then, sure enough, anytime, any day you can get on and it has a limited time today only offer for the free [00:20:00] opt every time.
[00:20:01] If you put something into your cart and you didn't buy it, then they're going to show up with emails that say, Oh, hey, you forgot to buy this, but we're going to throw in that Ottoman for you. Just so you, you know.
[00:20:12] Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. So here's a question about that. So obviously we want to say what's true and be ethical. And I know that people sometimes need as little sense of urgency or a deadline in order to be compelled to move them forward and sometimes think it's a good thing to help people move forward. So what's your answer to that? How do we create that in an authentic and real way and in service to our clients?
[00:20:37] I think even just messaging that by saying, you know, I'm going to really try to motivate you here and it's because I don't want you to be sitting on the fence anymore. I know what kind of transformation this coaching service will give you. So you just actually language it. Like if it feels like I'm a little bit pressuring you, it's because I am. Because I want you to take the action, because I know how great the transformation [00:21:00] is. So that's sort of one option. Another option is to actually have a real deadline. So if you do run a promotion, run it for a short period of time, that doesn't necessarily mean that people can't come in or buy that product or service another time, but maybe it is a limited time promotion so that you can generate a bit of buzz and create some of that urgency. You can also actually limit the number of people who you bring into your coaching community. So if you want to be able to maintain a certain level of high touch and engagement within your group coaching program, for example, maybe you do limit it to ten, 50, 100 people and then you can say that and you can authentically say, look, seats are actually limited. And you won't be able to get in until the next time we promote this.
[00:21:49] Yes. Yeah, I love that. And I remember and this is maybe not related, but I did think of it and I wanted to bring it up. I remember in some emails we were doing in a campaign, [00:22:00] you know, a few months ago, the email where we really said like, make a choice either way. And if this isn't right for you, then kind of like, Great, we're going to see you next week on our regular email and we're still here for you and giving that permission. So yeah, I want to I would love for you to speak on.
[00:22:18] Yeah, yeah. That was, that's a really important technique in a sales email and it's I can't remember what it's called, but it's basically like inviting them to make a decision either way and allowing your reader to know that either decision is the best decision for them. You know, just make a decision. So you write your email, it's a sales email to get them to take the action which you want it to be to join your program, your service. But you give them two links in the email, One link is like, Yes, I'm in. Sign me up for your your coaching service. The other link is, you know what? This isn't going to work for me right now, but I'm going to continue to subscribe to your podcast, follow your blog and access some of the free [00:23:00] resources so that just the act of making a decision is so empowering for the reader. It gives them a chance to be like, Yes, I'm making a decision and and then everyone feels good. So you may motivate them to take the action to join your offer. But even if they don't, they're taking an action to stay connected. And you can still nurture that relationship on until they're ready to make the step or until you have an offer that really resonates with them.
[00:23:28] Yes, I love that, because as I'm thinking about it, you know, I'm imagining sometimes I think it's true that if if someone does feel a little too pressured or there's kind of this I don't know, it's almost like there's some extra energy in there and that really just kind of drops the rope and it's like, it's totally up to you. I'm here either way. I think sometimes that can help people to relax and make that choice moving forward because it really shows them, Oh, this is my choice. And now that I've cleared out a little bit of this noise [00:24:00] or fear about the sales process, this is what I want. And I think also when we make that choice to say no, even if that person never gives you a dime, never works with you in any paid capacity, you have just done a service for them in giving them the opportunity to make a choice for themselves and telling them that it's good for them to make a choice for themselves no matter what.
[00:24:26] Yeah, because then they can go on to their next thing, whether that's working on something different or finding a different coach, but you've released them into moving forward and not continuing to like second guess, like, did I make the right decision or should I or shouldn't I?
[00:24:42] Yes. Okay. I love it. Okay. So next tip. So that's two.
[00:24:47] That's two.
[00:24:48] Tips. Yeah. Tell about this.
[00:24:49] So talk like you're talking to your bestie and do your research. The third tip that I always love to share is the rule of you. [00:25:00] So the word you is the most important word in your copy. And when I am reviewing copy, especially corporate copy, but also it comes up in a lot of coaches copy as well. There's a tendency to be very focused on like me and my services and this is what I did, and I'm certified by this body and I can do this and I can help you do that, and I will do this and I'll teach you this in my webinar. And that is so focused on the service provider, the coach, and not focused on the reader or your client. So if you can count on a sales page or in an or in a sales email, how many times you've said the word I us, we count the number of times you say you, your, yours. And if your eyes and s's are outnumbering the use in yours, you can go back and rewrite some of those sentences from the perspective of you, of the reader. So for example, [00:26:00] one of the edits that I'm constantly writing in my clients copy is like, I will teach you the three strategies for, you know, closing more sales and instead I swap it to when you attend this webinar, you'll discover the three strategies to close more sales.
[00:26:19] Just that simple change of removing the coach or the the service provider out of it and putting in the reader instantly connects and instantly turns corporate copy into friendlier, more conversational copy. So that rule of view is really important. Now the caveat to using the rule of you is you never want to assume the worst of your audience. So you don't want to be like, you're struggling with this. You can't get it together. You can't figure it out. You can't you know, you don't want to be to blamey in your new language. And that's part of like weaving in some of that ethical messaging. You want to approach that with a little bit more of a delicate hand. So [00:27:00] it could be like a lot of the clients who come to me struggle with confidence and maybe that's something you share. These clients tell me they struggle with X, Y, Z, and if this is something you can relate to, then then listen up, because here's something that you really want to hear. So you just are very, very careful about how you're positioning that pain and that problem. You still want to mirror it so that they see you understand the problem, but you don't want to blame them for having that problem. That's just a little bit of a subtle nuance.
[00:27:29] And what about even the idea of putting it out there as like a possibility, kind of like maybe you are feeling something like this similar that softens.
[00:27:40] That's actually super powerful copywriting technique is to say maybe this resonates with you or perhaps perhaps this is something you've struggled with and it just creates that window of possibility that gets opens up my guard so that I can let you in and connect a little bit more with you.
[00:27:59] Yes. [00:28:00] Yes. Well, I love the rule of you, first of all, because. Well, it's effective, right? Yeah. And I think it's easy because it's pretty easy to go through after you've written and see how to make that adjustment. And the other reason I like it just from a like coaching mastery space, thinking about as I'm helping coaches with their skills is too often usually when we're getting stuck or feeling insecure in coaching, it's because we are making it too much about us, right? Like we're wanting to like have the validation or do they think, I'm good at this? Do they think I'm the expert when our whole job as a coach is to empower our clients as the expert? Everything is about them. My feelings or what anyone thinks about me in the session isn't relevant. It's about them. And so I like just the, you know, the connection with that because I think it's important for us to realize that not only because it's more effective, but also it actually helps us to stay focused on what's most important, [00:29:00] which is our.
[00:29:00] Love that I actually hadn't thought about that connection either. So I'm glad you pointed that out. That's really beautiful, actually. Yeah.
[00:29:07] Okay. So good. I would love to hear anything else you have to say as far as being ethical in all of this as well and ethical writing. So I know you've woven some of it in, but what are a few things that you would offer my listeners?
[00:29:22] I think something that I want to just share, which is a little bit on people's radar, but maybe they kind of forget when in certain environments and it's being aware of words, cultural words and language we use and something that's called digital blackface. So as you know, Molly, when I write emails for my clients, I like to use a lot of gifts or I like to infuse gifts to make them more engaging and to sort of help bring a little bit of entertainment to the emails. But when I'm writing for a white [00:30:00] client, I am very mindful that I am not going to use a gif or a gif that depict a person of color. I'm very intentional about not choosing gifs of, say, Snoop Dogg for a white client because that is a form of digital blackface and it's a very subtle approach to being ethical in your copywriting, but it's just really important to be mindful of that because unfortunately a lot of those gifts are like highlighting negative cultural stereotypes. And even though there may be funny when it's a non person of color using them, it's considered digital blackface where this is particularly problematic and not a lot of people are talking about it is on tiktoks and reels. So a lot of people are using the audios that are perpetuating some really harmful cultural stereotypes and using them for entertainment and to be [00:31:00] funny. But if the voice is very clearly or the audio is very clearly from a certain cultural group that can actually be really harmful.
[00:31:07] So I like to flag that digital blackface as something to just be aware of and to choose your audio or your imagery very carefully. Now that's not to say if you serve a diverse clientele, you shouldn't include stock images of your clients who are diverse. But we just don't want to perpetuate any harmful stereotypes or tropes that are just not true. Some of the words we use we should also be very careful of. So, you know, there's obviously words that we definitely don't use anymore, but there's some little sneaky ones like Cakewalk, which I recently learned has roots in slavery. Grandfathered white listed. These are some words like often when you're writing your email, your welcome email, you might say, Hey, make sure you whitelist my email so that you get it. And like that phrase is actually not a very not a very good [00:32:00] one to use. So instead swap it out for something like safe send or add me to your safe senders list. So we're just being mindful of some of that language that can be triggering or perpetuate harmful stereotypes. So that's just a little tip there. But again, also don't want people to be overthinking about it. And if you're ever concerned like, is this okay, then just like phone a friend, ask a friend, get somebody else to like weigh in. Is this actually okay? And and you'll probably be steered right. But don't overthink it. Just. Just keep it in the back of your mind. Yeah.
[00:32:32] Good to be mindful of. Because, I mean, these are things you just don't really think about, right? Yeah.
[00:32:38] Yeah. The other thing I would maybe offer is, you know, just allowing people time to make a decision. We kind of talked about the deadline funnel with the countdown timer, you know, for a low ticket item or a free item, having a short amount of time to make a decision is probably okay. You know, it's like a [00:33:00] Bogo sale when you're buying your shoes, like it's a limited time, it's a low ticket offer. I'm okay with having it be that limited time. But if you have, you know, a 4 or 5 figure coaching package that you're you're inviting people to step into, give them more time to make that decision because so many of us have different money, traumas and money stories that we're bringing to the table that we kind of need to work through and we need to feel safe to invest at that higher level. So it would probably be pretty bad for him to have a countdown timer when you have a $10,000 offer because it just triggers that fight or flight response and it might make us make a decision that we later regret. And, you know, as a coach, you don't want to invite somebody in who's not a right fit, whether it's financially or for any other reason. And you want them to enter into that relationship with you from a space of possibility and expansion, not like scarcity [00:34:00] and contraction. So just being mindful of that timeline that you give your and runway that you give your people to make those decisions, especially when they're at a higher price point.
[00:34:11] Yeah, I love that. And as you were talking, I was thinking about how being ethical is important just because I think it's the right thing to do. It's like treating humankind, you know, human beings well. And it also does reap the reward long term of I think that's how you build a quality business where you have an energy in your business that you want and that really is truly service focused. So I think it's like those small things. Doing the right thing in those small ways just has a big impact. Long term.
[00:34:47] And I think when you come back to that belief that sales is love, sales is service, and I'm connecting with you like I want to connect with my best friend and I'm talking to you from my heart to your heart, [00:35:00] then you're already going to be ahead of the game. And I know that like copywriting and sales, copywriting in general can be very, very overwhelming. And it we, we get a little tripped up by it now, adding this layer of like, am I ethical in my marketing? Like we don't want to overcomplicate it. I just want to offer, you know, your listeners that if you've written something and then you ask yourself, Oh, is this a little shady or is this ethical marketing? The fact that you're asking the question shows that you probably aren't being really sleazy in your marketing. So the people who have the sleaziest messaging are not asking those questions. They're not saying, should I have a countdown timer? They're like, do it. You know, we want to get rich quick. And so that is sort of just just to give yourself a little bit of grace. If you're asking the question, you're probably doing a good job.
[00:35:52] Yeah, yeah, I love that. And this whole conversation, I mean, I feel like as we're talking, it just feels like so much like abundance [00:36:00] and trust in in goodness. And I don't know, that's just it's so powerful, right? Because it can be really easy to when we set these big goals and we're facing our fears to get in, you know, scarcity and and trying to use, you know, tactics to kind of get there and don't know. This is just a great conversation. So I love it.
[00:36:20] Yeah, it's an important conversation. And I really want especially coaches, to be empowered to ask for the sale and to know that it's okay to ask for the sale because the transformation that you create for your customer and your client is so important and so needed in the world and it just trickles down through their family, their community. So by. Are you asking for somebody to join your coaching program? You're going to change not just their lives, but like the lives of the people around them. So ask for the sale. Sales is low. Yes. Yes.
[00:36:56] Yes. I love it. I know. Well, I always say, like when I was [00:37:00] going through my divorce and I was so worried about money, I am so glad that I paid like what I considered like good money for a coach because I needed to make that investment in myself. And I'm grateful that I had the opportunity to pay the money to work with someone to help me because it served me long term. So I think we have to always remember that love, that that message that you shared. So, yeah. All right, Kim, first of all, I want you to tell everyone where they can find you and of course, also share any last words of wisdom. So, sure, Well.
[00:37:36] People can find me on social. I'm Kim Keel Copy in various different iterations. And you can also link to everything from my website, which is triple Kim ELLE.com. There I have a really simple but juicy checklist that people can download, which is all about some of these tips [00:38:00] that we talked about, but even a few more to make your copy more readable and to help you ask for the sale. It's called the Magnetic Copy Checklist. So anyone can get that it's super free and yeah, just ping me on social.
[00:38:13] Awesome. And I will have all of this in the show notes as well.
[00:38:16] So brilliant. Well, thank you so much for having me.
[00:38:19] Thank you so much, Kim. Have a good one.
[00:38:22] So my friend, that was Master coach Molly Clare. She is a gifted coach and dedicated to helping women build easeful businesses that allow them the time they need to enjoy their families. Please check out her website and her coaching program, including her advanced coaching certification in motherhood and family life coaching at Molly clare.com and of course subscribe to her podcast the masterful coach podcast. I'll drop links to connect with her into the show notes. And now I'd love to know what did you think about this conversation we had about ethical sales and selling? [00:39:00] Did you have any aha's? Do you disagree with anything we discussed? I'm always available for feedback, so please reach out to me by email to share your thoughts. I'd really love to hear from you. Well, my friend, that's a wrap on today's episode. I'll see you next week. Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Ill Communication. Hey, if you enjoy these snack sized strategies and tips, you'll want to join my VIP Copy and Cocktails club. It's my email newsletter where I share more copy tips, sales strategies and the occasional recipe for my favorite beverage or appetizer du jour. To subscribe, visit Khimki NHL.com Slash Newsletter. Thanks for tuning in.
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